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Jiu-Jiteiros C2C
Jiu-Jiteiros C2C

Episode · 2 years ago

Episode 4

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode Frank & Alfonso are sick and tired of MMA judges making bad decisions. They discuss what could fix the bad judging in MMA and share their top 5 WORST decisions in MMA.

Hey everybody, and welcome to another episode of Jiuji Tedals, Coast to coast, the podcast that's about everything Jiujit tedals and counter on the daily, from training to everyday life and everything in between. My name is Frank Garcia, currently a purple belt under Victor said Vanta's at rivalry Jiujitsu and Fresno, California, and today I'm joined by my good Homie Alfonso. How you doing today, man, doing excellent. Man, thanks for having me on again. And to those of you don't Know Me, My name is Alfonso Completo, currently training at technique fitness and me, you know, just here from Cochella. Shout out to everybody out there. Thanks for having me on. A Hick Yeah, for sure, for sure. All right, man. So glad to have you in on and I cannot wait to start talking and stir up these old memories that we're going to be talking about right now. So what we're going to be doing today is we're going to be starting a new segment and we're calling it the knockout artist, and the reason we're calling it the knockout artist is not because we know how to knock people loud and we know our way around the ring. It's because if we were fighters, that's probably what would be happening to us. We would probably be getting knocked the fuck out all the damn time. Why? Because we really don't know shit about fighting. But we're going to talk about it and we're going to give our take, and that's that. And so on today's episode of Jiujitital's coast to coast, we're going to be talking about our current MMA scorn system that has been creating a mountain of what it feels like bad decisions and fans all over the world, including myself, and I don't know if that's including you as well, off on Zo, we're just sick. We're sick and tired of it, man. And so what we're going to be talking about today's we're going to be sharing our takes on what we think we could do to correct this problem, and we're also going to be sharing what the go job big John McCarthy, one of the greatest MMA referees of all time, mentioned on his postcapt on his podcast about what he believes could fix this set. The resolute will could fix the problem, you know. And we're also going to be talking about our five worst and made decisions of all time. Talk Bring up old memories, talk about bad decisions. What he what we think could have happened if we would have applied these new rules to that? Maybe right and and that's basically about it. And I really didn't want to bring this up. Man, I hate to bring this up, but we were supposed to be joined by our another good friend of ours, Eddie, and I unfortunately eighty, and his families dealing with the loss, the loss of their first dog. You know, Frieda had been around since, I want to say since I started teaching dudes, like backing over. Forever. Oh for ye, forever, Mens. She's such a wonderful dog, so nice, so gentle, great, great family dog. I can't imagine the loss they're feeling right now. You know, it's like a family member, you know, right. Yeah, man, it's got to be sad. I mean it's just it's one of those things that you like, you know, dogs just love unconditionally. They don't know anything, but you know, and it just kind of one of those things where they're always happen seeing you and I just you know, I've never really had a pet like that, but I can imagine that if that was your buddy, your long term buddy, man, they're they're there for a long time and all of a sudden they're not there. You know, it's just like losing a best friend. Yeah, man, dogs are just there so loyal, no matter what. You know, on your worst day they're always there, you know right. Friedo wasn't my dog, but I had a lot of bad days and I would go over and she would she just knew and she would comfort you do she was just like it was like a dog. That's a mom. It's so weird, but that, that was her soul, that was her spirit, you know, it just cannot say enough great things about that, about her.

Man, I love her. I love her so much. I'm going to deserve and so we're going to be talking about MMA, but our hearts are with Adie and his family. Frieda, we love you, miss you. Rest in paradise, my love. There's chairs. Salut, Frieda. Will see you soon. Take care. Yeah, all right, man, let's go ahead and start this show. Let's do it. In Combat Sports, whenever a previous fighter or a fighter passes away, one way they honor that person is they do a ten bell salute. So I wanted to do a ten bell salute for Freedo because she brought a lot of love, a lot of happiness to this world and I was so glad to be able to be a part of it. So Salut Frieda. We love you, we miss you and, like I said before, rest in paradise girl. You will be missed. All right, everybody, welcome to the very first segment of the knockout artist without your host frank and Co host Alfonso. Nice first sound bite of the season. Sweet shout. Man, we got a list of things that we're going to be talking about here. We're going to be talking about the scoring system that we're currently in using were not really us, but what the MMA world is currently using, talk about our worst five, our top five worst decisions in MMA history, and then what we think could fix this this resolution. You know what could what could fix the problem. So what do you want? What do you want to go with? First, man, let's just start talking about the ten points scoring system. You know, like like a lot of a lot of people out there, like I knew it existed, but you know there was. There's a lot to it and you know, I and research for this for this podcast. You know I have to go and look at what it is how it scored. So let's start there, so that way we can give everybody kind of a point of view of what it is and why it's so important. All right, go perfect. Cool. So the ten points scoring system. It the way it generally works, as far as I've been understanding it is. Every round is it's worth ten points. Right, the winner of the round is worth ten and generally the loser of the round gets nine points for the most part. And if it's a really bad round for one of the fires, essentially bad round, and that round gets that, that fighter would get an eight instead of nine. However, most rounds don't get scored as an eight. They always like a ten, nine for the most part, and that's all. Another issue that that arises from that is some of the judges, especially during the than the first or second round, don't really like giving eight point rounds early on because it might feel like if they score a fighter eight points on the first round, for example, then that fighter is kind of doomed already because they're already two points behind. So that's an issue I want to talk about get get back to you later, but in essence, that's a ten point scoring system. Is Ten for the winner, nine or less for the loser of each round. Okay, okay, any right. I think we want to add to that. No, man, that's pretty much kind of what I mean. I don't really I have never really read the...

...rules. I mean I just know that for every round you got, there's got to be a winner or or necessary. Doesn't necessarily need to be a winner. There can be a tie also, you know, it can be at a ten, ten or nine, nine, but for the most part someone's going to rent went around and someone's going to lose around. Right the term. What determines whether someone wins around or loses around? Dude, that's fucking seems like it's up in the air. Like you can have one judge, you know, scoring it one way in their mind and then another the judge right next while, I mean they're not sitting next to each other, but the next judge scores it completely different because they're they thought something different or they know something different. There's no defined wolves for them to follow, you know. I mean the thing is they're done right. Well. The thing is that, like there are there are things that that they're supposed to be looking at the right, like, for example, like like strikes, striking, effective striking, effective submissions, effective control, right, like clinch work, all that stuff, like they're supposed to be looking at that and and scoring the fight on those merits, right, like so effective striking and effective submission game should be like at the top of that scoring like that's where most of your points are going to come from, right, and after that you got like aggression, and then ring control, right, would be another another criteria for that. So it's like you have these criteria that you're looking at as you're scoring the fight. The problem is that with the with some of the judges, they prefer certain things are over others. Like, for example, if you have a judge who's been used to like boxing for a long time, right, and they come into MMA, of course they're going to see striking at like they're going to give a one more points to striking. Then they will to like wrestling or submission attempts, like ground game stuff, grappling, because they know that game more. Right. Oh Yeah, I'm I'm with I'm following you a hundred percent. It is exactly what I was going to say, and and vice versa. Right, right, you can have someone who's a judge who was a former college wrestler or a former Jiu jitsu world champion and their lack and someone hits, you know, like, for if I was judging and I saw someone at someone, you know, fighting and maybe they end up in a freaking I don't know, name a crazy submission that you'd that you know is super a go, go PLOTA, you know, or going to say head mark, because that is that hearts mission. It's it's a hard submission to the hard to defend anish. No, it's like the easiest thing to get out of. Dude. So, like if you get stuck in a head like that's why you never see it. You know, then the then the didn't box get ammitted land via headlock? I don't think so. Somebody else, Chris Littell, get got submitted by or I think he submitted somebody. Oh Yeah, Chris Lidell. I want to say, submitted Tikey Goshen by like schoolyard headlock, right, scar, you know, back in the day early. I want to say no, but you're right, like in yeah, there, if you see someone something, yeah, yeah, if you see someone hit seat, hit something, that's super difficult. You know, I see someone almost get someone in a twister, I'm like, dude, that was super hard to get someone into. You know, I'm going to give him the round, I'm going to give him ten, nine. You know, maybe he didn't finish it, but he almost did and I know that it took him a lot of effort to get to that point, and so I'm going to give him a round, whereas the other guy, maybe he doesn't know anything about grappling, so he's not going to gas like, what was that? You just holding him right, right, but and then, and that's the issue to you. Know I'm saying you have to be really well run it around it as a judge, right, because I mean to be honest, like I don't...

...watch too many grappling competitions. I know I know you do, Frank. So when I'm watching grappling competitions, like I can definitely appreciate what they're doing because I've trained somewhat and I know how difficult someone the position it can be, but I probably don't see all the nuance that you do write. So sure, for sure, somebody gets out. When somebody gets out of, you know, being dominant, like if somebody else. You know, like, for example, if I'm if I'm an a dominant position and you you try to get out of it. You know, I'm saying, like there's some positions are incredibly difficult to get out of. So you might appreciate that a lot more because you know what's happening, right, you know the INS and outs. True, true. So you would hope that the people that are judging these spits right, would would know that, would have a background in in all of the aspects of MMA, you know. Yeah, but they don't. They're most of them are boxing judges, you know, and it's not their fault. They're just, Hey, do you want to judge this fight? Okay, and of course, of course they're going to say yeah, you know, free. I mean it's money, right. So what do you what do you think the solution there, man, because, like how difficult would it be to get like somebody who is like like well, I mean, you know what, what's one thing that could instantly fix this like that, and it has nothing to do with the judges, and it's it's finish. If the fight gets finished, then there is no judge. We don't got to worry about the judge. You know, and that's not to say that that fighters are not trying to finish fights, because they are, you know, like you know what I'm just yeah, well, I mean, but at the same time there is so much at stake. There's not just the fight at stake. There's not a night. Losing a fight. It's weird to pet it's losing a paycheck. It's right, it's it's losing sponsors. It's okay, well, you now you were the co main event or the main event of the pay per view. Now maybe you're at the bottom of the pay per view or maybe you're in the pre lands now. You know that that counts for something. So these fighters, they don't and they I don't blame him because I would do the same thing. You know, they're all they're doing is trying to win. Or actually, they're not trying to win, they're trying not to lose. Yeah, which it's kind of like, I feel, what we saw in the Kamar roosman fight, where he was just not trying to lose, super dominant. You know, he totally dominated him. You know, it wasn't take any words and he wasn't taking any risk. You know, he was plainly safe. He came up with the excellent game plan followed her to it. Now, yeah, but you're right, he didn't take in take any risk in that fight, you know, like he yeah, because that F I could eat usually gone on a completely different way. Yeah, totally, totally. Yeah, all right, cool. So we familiarize the stuff, with the with the with the ten point system. You want to start talking about some of these fights. So we were, we've been watching recently and like some of the stuff toward just like how is. Let's talk about what big John McCarthy said on his podcast. Right, big John McCarthy's got a podcast with x MMA or x UFC, x strike force fighter, Josh Thompson, Josh the punk Thompson. Yeah, and their podcast is called the way in. I want to see, and so on his pod, on their podcast, big John McCarthy mentioned because I don't know if you know it's but big John McCarthy is one of the one of the founders of the rule system as it is right now. So if anybody knows this rule system and how it's supposed to be interpreted, it's him and he knows it's not it's not perfect. And so one thing or something that he mentioned on his podcast was what if we created categories for every round and we gave ten points for each of those categories.

For example, let's have a category on striking. You can, everybody knows, okay, if you know that, you have to award someone points for striking. Okay, now you're going to be a pay attention to only striking because even if you're a grappler, you know what striking is and you can see it. And can can you say that person outstruck that person pabiblier? You know, you might be able to get it. You might be able to get it the majority of the time. Okay, so now there's ten points for striking. How about grappling? Can you tell who was more aggressive or who was better at grappling every round, just like you did with striking? For sure you can do that. If there's someone sweeping somebody, you know, even if they're getting taken down, once they're on the ground, what are they doing with that? Are they just holding them? Are they trying to advance their position? Are they working on a submission? Are they slowly trying to break that person's posture down? You know, are they constantly working sweeps is a person struggling to get out. I mean because if you're sometimes, I mean this this podcast is Jiujit deal's coast to coast and right you know it, there are time when you're grappling with somebody and if they're better than you do it, it feels like you're like you're drowning in a pool. Like it feels like you have fucking dog. This guy just farted under the disk. Nice, Love Them, love you, dude, but pooted down. All right anyways. But yeah, dude, it's suffocating. So, but going back to can you wait talking about the part? Or are you talking about? Sorry about? Why? No, the FART IST suffocating. Definitely suffocating. Yeah, all right. So, yeah, if you're if you're fighting somebody, good, yeah, man, it's a totally feels like you're just like getting tools into the deep over the pool. Yeah, feels like. Yeah, totally, it suck. But again, your breath is just like almost impossible. That's awful. It's awful. But again, can you just can you give somebody? Can you say who won the grappling portion of the round? Yeah, okay, what else? What else is there? Okay, how about cage control or aggression. Can you tell who was running away or who was stocking the other person? Who was being more aggressive? Who controlled the center of the cage? You know what this this is. This is an issue for me because I don't know, man, I sometimes enjoy counterfighters, you know, I'm saying, like counterpunchers, for sure. And well, well, let's take it even further. Let's just say who was the aggressor, you know, because just because you're coming in, I mean, Hey, look at when Ronda Rowsi fought a holly home. Who was the aggressor? Obasly was the aggressor, but who was doing the most damnaged? She didn't do nothing with all that pressure. No, not, you know. So so maybe we can change it into who was, you know, who did the most damage? Yeah, and that's one and that's that's the thing too, because I've been watching, like you said, I've been watching John McCarthy. I did it. I didn't check out that podcast that you mentioned, but I was looking at stuff he's he said in interviews and stuff, and there I came up on this interview that he did like I think it was like twelve years ago, and he was talking about how the new unified rules of the UFC. Like when he was trying to get there was a lot of stuff that he wanted to add in there, but of course I commission didn't want it right. Right. So one of the things that he was forced to take out is damage, because he said that, you know, at that time they were getting a lot of heat because, you know, you know, people call the sport human cock fighting and all kinds of shit. You know this when they're going to go legit, and how do you put that on a score card, like you're really going to publish damage as one of the criteria when we're trying...

...to get get this legitimate? So they haven't done that, but I think that's legit because it is one of those things, right, because even in submission you got damage, is somebody put you in an arm bar. Even if you escape, your arm is fucked up, man like. It hurts exactly, exactly like. Can you imagine if in the first round you get caught in an arm bar? Now your arm is compromise. Yeah, maybe you got out, but that arms not the same. So now you can't do the same thing with that on that you did before, and maybe now in the next round on the seam arm. You get caught in a Kimura. Yeah, now it's even more. Yeah, you know what I mean. Now, even now, damage like more. And know he's still gotta fight more rounds. Good luck, buddy, good luck. Well, remember who? Who was? Jon Jones, fighting that one where he got where he almost got armboard and a little out of torn his freaking is ligaments or some shit. That was TRT Bel for. Damn. Yeah, see, and he almost do and you and you see, and you saw the rest of that fight. He wasn't using that arm as well as much. Yeah, I got hyper extended, for Sureman, he and tough. He's a tough son of a bitch. Man, he may you fought through that, but you know what, Um, another thing that was mentioned, and I don't know who mentioned this or where I heard this, but what if the judges didn't score every round? What if they only scorted it at the end? Oh, that's interesting. You know what if they're like all right at the end of the fight, like all right, now, it's all done? You know, because they could get caught up with what's going on in every round instead of thinking overall what happened. You know, because, just like you said, a judge doesn't want to give a round, a ten eight round, to somebody because that's going to put that out of the fighter behind the carts and they may never be able to catch up, you know. But so what if they did it? They took that out and now at the end, all right, now it's just who do you think? One, because that's how they did it in pride. They didn't judge the fight till the very end, you know. And then another thing, and I'm not sure who mentioned this as well. What if they? I mean, who was it? I want to say this. I think he uses Max Holloway, Max Hollow it was like, Hey, in the NBA, I'm watching and or if you're playing, you look up at the score and you're like, oh, we're down by ten points, we gotta play harder, and they play harder and they you know, it changes the outcome of the game. When have you watching NBA game where they're like, who's winning? I don't know, we'll find out at the end. Nobody. That you gotta because that has an effect on the outcome of the game. You're talking about open story. So what if, ever, at the end of every round they know odd now I'll do. You lost that round. They say you lost that round. You got to put it on that. You know what I mean? I would yea. At the same time, that could blow up because now, all right, you won the first round, you won the second round, you want the third round, you won the fourth round. All right, what are you gonna do in the fifth round? You're just gonna Coast. Yeah, lay and prey. Yeah, it's it. You know, you can just run and even if you give it, you lose ten a, you still win the fight. Yeah, you know. So it could totally backfire on us and yeah, it can. Here's the thing, and I actually heard that there was another interview that I watched with John McCarthy as well. He talked about that same thing with the open scoring beat what he was saying as well, you know, because he brought up that argument right. Well, yeah, if you got to do that's winning, you know, four out of four rounds already. The fifth round is going to be boring as Shit, you know, because he's just kind of like just not going to want to engage, like why, right, risk anything. And then the other guy, I forget who's talking to, but he said he goes. Well, that could be easy to fix, right, because you can just like do yellow carts had cards, right, for inactivity, and he goes yeah, that would that problem right. You know, and I don't know if we you should explain yellow are. Definitely explain what a yellow card is. And where does the yellow card system come from, you know, because I don't know where it comes from,...

...but I know is widely using pride and I and I honestly like that system a lot. So what? What is it? So what's the yellow card? What? So can how does someone get a yellow card and what does that result in? My understanding from the yellow card is happens when a fighter is stalling or they're not. They're not being active at all. So who decides or who determines if they think the fighter is stalling or not? The REF. So the REF will will go ahead and if he thinks that a fighter stalling or not being active, you know, maybe just kind of holding somebody waiting until the REF stands him up. You know, yeah, you can do that a couple times. But if he if he believes that you just doing that on purpose because you got no answer for whatever's happening, then he can give you a yellow car and that yellow car will penalize your purse at the end of the fight. So we'll take a percentage of from whatever your purse was away for stalling. I want to say go ahead, go ahead, I want to say so, I remember. So what would happen was if a reft thought that a fighter or fighters were stalling, he would instantly step in, separate them, pull out a yellow car, just like a judge, just like a reff in soccer. Yeah, show it to the fighter and put in his face and tell him, Hey, you just got a yellow card. You just lost ten percent of your check. You write if you if I give you another one. Now it's going to be a red card. And what's a Red card? So a red card would be a point deduction. Is My understanding right? You get a pull I think so. I think so. But also it also meant twenty percent of your chap just is gone. Yeah, yeah, so the only thing that I didn't like was that he kind of just felt like it was up to the to the REF whenever he wanted to issue those. Because I want to see, like one time rampage got a yellow card for some he was being a grip and he was like I was at Awd. That's fucked up. He just lost like ten grand easy. Yeah, now. And you know what the funny thing is that a John McCarthy brought that same point in that same interview, because they gave the game freaking yellow car to rampage, you know. And rampage is one of those dudes never boring, right, he's always working. Not Back in the day, rampage one of my all time yeah, all my favorite fighters, along with your how bum her NA. Yeah, no, dude, no way he would. He will slam he you were guaranteed to see one, two, three slams a fight back in the day with early rampage before Vanderley put him to sleep through the ropes Du that shit was crazy. That was a freaking job ad dropping moment. I don't want to talk about it. That's like if watching the titanic and your friend was in it. That's how it fell. I felt like, yeah, it was just a hopeless feeling. It was awful, but we'll say that for another episode. will say that you're another well, and we'll talk about that one more specifically later. For sure. For sure. Sounds like we need some therapy. They're frank to definitely, definitely do TRNA ties. I was up Dragan. I'm a super gigantic Quinn rampage fan and love that guy. All right, so back to shut up any PROVO. So back back to that guy. Yeah, who invited it? Back to what we're talking about with John McCarthy. So you brought up that counterpoint right, like yeah, you can. You know, it depends on the judge, just like you have good judges, you have bad judges, right, you have. So, yeah, you're it's kind of at the mercy of the judges, but I think for the most part it kind of gave it a little bit of Nelman like. You have to work right, you can't just just kind of lay around. So I personally like that system. Great idea. Yeah, it's a great idea. Yeah. The other thing, though,...

...that he brought up about the open scoring, though, that I do want, that I wanted to point out, was that he said also that you can have open scoring, but you can choose who gets to see that scoring. Dude, like, for example, like to the judges gets to see it? Do the like? Does a fighter get to see that? Does do the audience members get to see that? Does the people in attendance, right at the arena, I get to see that. Like who gets to see that score because? Well, like I are, go ahead, because what he's saying, it goes. There's implications for everybody who gets to see it. You know what he said, for example, like if the arena people get to see it, the people in attendance, if they don't agree with your score cards and everybody's like Gung Ho, like they love, there's like a local fire who they freaking love and Shit and the judges are having below on a score card, they're going to turn on the judges start throwing shit at the judges, like he goes. You think it might. It won't happen, but it will. Yeah, and I can only see that happening with certain grown right most definitely. I think what what they should do is they should only show their score cards to the people that it matters, to the audience, like list like one of the things about finding is it's totally in the air. Yeah, up until when that guy reads the decision. So leave it like that. We're as an eye where in the audience. That's part of the show man, that's part of the right. Sit The fuck sit down, shut the fuck up and let them figure out who and let them tell us who wins at the end. The only people that need to know what the score is, as it's going should be the corners. That's it. Not even the announcers, because any announcers are going to say Shit, or you know what I mean. But maybe they could, they could add that to it if they want, because then they're just going to say to the people at home. And what are we going to do? I don't know. Maybe you can tweet people or text people that are at the fights and then, yeah, but yeah, so maybe not. Maybe that's a bad idea. Maybe keep it only to the REF. The ref gets it and then the REF has to go in to each corner and say, Hey, this is what you know, or or maybe the rep or maybe the raft and the head coach of each corner wears a certain an earpiece and as soon as as soon as the cards get put in, they get put in electronically, or maybe even a page. You we can go back to pager and they get a text and it says the score. So that way there's no there's no audio involved, and that can work. And here's the thing. If you if you let the the head coaches know, then they can tell the fighter that. It's their choice or whether or not they can. They want to tell a fighter right exactly. So if they if they see that their fighters going to be motivated by knowing that they're if they're losing on this shore cards, then they're going to tell them. Or if they're going to be feel motivated because they're winning, they're going to fight harder than they know their fighter more than anybody else. Right. So they can choose whether or not to tell him to score. All right, let's go ahead and move on and start talking about our top five worst and mamma decisions. And we're keeping it to five. But I know there's way more than this because lately it just seems like almost every card there's a bad decision, yes or no, tons man all the last last card, UFC two hundred and fifty one. What was the bad decision? Max Holloway, Volcanoski? Can we agree? Okay, I'm sure if we looked, I don't remember. You have C two hundred and fifty, but I bet you, if we looked at it, I bet you there was something it. There's something on almost every single card. So do you want to kick it off on? You want to start off with with what we got? What would be our first, our number five worst decision? And really I don't think we rank these like all. This one's worse than this. Yeah, I just said pick five and I didn't even pick five, I just picked like two or three. But I imagine that together we could come back come up with a list of at least five. I agree. And people. Let's...

...just start with the most recent. Let's start with Hollowe will knosky, okay, and so what? Why would do you think it was a bad decision? Just because, man, like I, you know what it just so Woganaski for of all Volcanoski one, right, yeah, yeah, wokanaski one. A lot of people thought Max one, including myself. I thought he did. I thought Max one, round one. Yeah, Max run round two. And we talked about this on episode three. I want to see last episode. No, Oh no, no, episode two. Talking about this on episode two. Where are you know? We gave reasons why we thought Max won the five, but for whatever reason at the end he didn't get the decision. Yeah, totally, and the thing is that, like you know, like Holloway, did so much more. You know, I went back and watch it again and like, if you look, if you look at what what Halloway was doing in this fight, like he was fighting so much smarterr like it just, you know, like he was he was actually moving, was cutting corners. You know, he was trying to he was trying to like get these angles. At any time will knobski would come forward, he would like move side to side, and you know, that's the kind of stuff that, you know, that somebody who understands the striking game, you know, can appreciate right like that. That in itself, like being able to to cut a corner and I tag your opponent as he's coming in, is is is. It's a beautiful thing to watch and that's something that I think should also be considered in the score cards, right, because it's not just like a strike, but it's also the way the strike kind of like if you go back, if you were talking about Jiu Jitsu, right, or grappling, you have you have certain submissions like to get from one from one position to another. Depending on how you do it, you can score more or less point US right, right, right. You know what I'm saying. Like, for example, going from like somebody's guard to taking somebody's back is different from going from mound to taking somebody's back, right, like the transitions or well, different steps. Yeah, there did know, you're right, there different steps, you know, it's just like it would is driving to San Francisco. The same thing is driving to La know, they're different routes. Man. Yeah, yeah, right. So, yeah, that my point here, right, like so, what would Hollywood was doing? Wasn't just that he was outstriking Bolkanofsky in my eyes, but also the way he was out striking and was more impressive. Yeah, yeah, yeah, man, I've been there's levels to the game, you know, the right levels, right, and I know I can't even, I couldn't even understand what was going on, but I knew there was something going on right now. And obviously he made adjustments from the first fight to the second fight and I thought those adjustments were enough for him to win the fight. You know, like I said, we eat. I gave him round one, I gave him round two, round three I think he kind of took it off. So I would have given it to Bolkenovski. I think I would have given round four to Bolkanovski also, but round five I would have given it to Mex you know. So the three routes to too, he should have won. Yeah, and you know, the funny thing is, you know I was I was telling you that I was what. I was looking at the stats that are published by the UFC here. And it's interesting, though, because they like round one and two, they have holloway out striking Wilkanowski, but three, four and five they were all closed, but they edged, they gave the edge over to Wilkanovski. So if you're looking at this, at the published score cards or the score the scoring...

...from the UFC, the official one, will Kanofski wins. Wow. Yeah, you know, for example, round one, nineteen out of thirty nine strikes for Volkanovski to nineteen out of forty seven for Holloway. Total strikes. This is actually know, these are significant strikes. And then round to twenty two out of forty seven for Wilkanovski, twenty one out of fifty two for Holloway. So he out one more significant strike for for Volkanovski, but he landed a higher percentage right for hollow yeah. So and then so and it goes on like that. Twenty five out of two for Volkanovski, round three, fifteen out of forty seven for Holloway, thirty four out of sixty three round for for Wilkanowski, twenty four out of sixty one for Holloway, thirty seven out of fifty, seventy one four round five for Willkanofski and twenty three sixty one for Holloway. So if you look at the score card here, yeah, like Vulkanovsky one, but it didn't look like it like like that in while you were watching the fight. Definitely not. Definitely not. So that you know, and that's why we kind of feel that, you know, they got it wrong, yes, in this second one, because you know, like you look at it on paper now, why should there even be a third match if Max lost the first two already? Right, that's crazy, you know, and I i. and then this goes back to what we're saying earlier. I think what it's what's ignoring, is just the fact of the damage as well, because the the the I mean strike landing, certain strikes they can be significant if they land flush, but they that doesn't mean that they didn't damage. Right, you can, you can walk through a job and not and not like get face. It's just like okay, I you got me one job. Then I come back with a right. You know I'm saying on that right did more damage and than your Jack. Yeah, but it's almost like point karate at that at that. Yeah, so, I mean, I think I can see why. A Matt, I can see why. I like in terms of scoring, it like point four, point, like you know, it just it does. I don't think. I don't think it makes sense to score like that. Yeah, yeah, I agree. I agree. Let's go ahead and move on. So five Max versus Volkanovski to worst decision. How about number four? Where would you put at number four? Man, it's hard to rank. Let's just talk about you want to do Guss some Jones the first fight, their first fight. Let's do it. Go, throw it in will sell. Gusts versus Jones. One happened a while ago, right while, but Joe Jones ended up winning. Yeah, and I thought Gus one. You know, I don't remember the rounds that I gave to Gustus Sun, but I thought I thought he did more damage, I thought he had he controlled more of a fight. I thought he was being more aggressive. I thought he had more takedowns, I thought, you know what I mean. Yeah, Dude, he fucking put it on Jones. Up until that point, nobody had done anything remotely close to what he did to John Jones. At the end of that fight, John Jones look like he had gotten into a fucking fight. He was busted up, man. Yeah, I just I just watched this again lat yesterday. I just watched the last night, right, and I'm going to tell you this, dude, like when, not when? I was watching that fight and I I think we're watching it at hung's house. I think we were over there and it was all of us. It was a bunch of US watching it that that day, and I remember I was, I was, I was, I was going for Jones. I remember that because hung didn't want to come down from the roof because Gustinson lost. Yeah, I was like, fool, you gotta come down. It's three o'clock in the morning. I was pissed two, I mean I was happy. I was happy that that fucking that Jones, that Jones...

...won everybody. You know, at that time, dude, I like Jones, was my boy, like I remember, like you know, watching, watching all the spikes and just like I was rooting for him, you know, it was just like so when he won, that was before he crashed into the pregnantly, right. Yeah, that was way before the yeah, that was right. All right, checking, just check. Yeah, no. So, anyways, so when I watched the Friday, I was like yeah, no, no, you know, Jones Want Joe Jones won, you know, and I remember saying if you want to be the champ, you gotta beat the Champ. You know that? That whole saying or whatever, fucking stupid off on. Yeah, no, I changed my mind on that. I don't. I don't think that that should be I'm I'm glad you pull your head out of your booty on that one. Holy did you hold. That's what happens that you don't. You get on. Was Good. All my friend could come. Yea. So, rewatching this fight, man, I gave like I scored it all over. So I gave the first round to guts gust of sin, you know. Yeah, he was just tagging them like it was clear, man, like you got, you got these strikes. Jones was like leg kicking. He does, you know, he does those oblique kicks and I hate those, man. Yeah, I hate them. Does those leg kicks, so he was getting in with those. But, you know, I mean those do damage, obviously, but I felt like the boxing was a lot more technical for Gustuson because he was tagging him with with with like Combos, like one, two, one, two three, you know, and Jones was just like one, like one punch, like one punch it, you know, one like. So it wasn't, you know, it wasn't. I don't think Jones did enough to win that that first round. The second round was hard, man, because the first half of the round Gustus and knocks Jones down by grabbing his leg. He grabbed his leg and he just took him down right, but I don't know if that counts as a takedown or a knock down. That's a takedown, my friend take down. So yeah, he took him down. And then second half though, second half of the second round, like Jones just turned it up and he started wailing on Gustus, and so it was kind of an even round, I believe. So I I don't know where I mean, I would probably call that one or tie. Maybe. Yeah, third round, Gustinson, for sure, Combos, you know, just again same strategy is one, but he had better exchanges, like he just guest of sound better exchanges in then Jones, you know, and then the third round, I mean sorry, fourth round. That was a third round. The fourth round, I gave that one to Jones. That one was totally Jones is round. In the second half of that round, big shots freaking, you know, like just just Jones like just turned it up and you can tell that gust of SIM was getting tired. He was, you know, he was just kind of slowing down, especially because all those oblique kicks. He wasn't moving us as good. So that was definitely Jones is round. The fifth round is I believe they both went out of it was a great fight. At this point, Gustus it was clearly tired but he was still throwing and and I narrowly give them the fifth round. Yeah, so by my score cards, Gustuson won three rounds. Jones maybe got to. Yeah, that's what I would that's what I remember. Yeah, yeah, and in that case, like, I mean, I don't know what were the judge looking at. Maybe just Jones was a champion. So that's like, you know what, you got to be more definite. But again, man, I don't think that's that's cool, because it's like you have to judge each fight for what it is, each round, for what it is each round. Yeah, can beach trout. Every every round is different from the next and they matter. What the fight. Yeah, yeah, yeah, good problem. Yeah, so that was that was my beef with that. Okay, how about what would you moving on from that fight, I would want to throw in Hendricks versus GSP one. Oh yeah,...

...that. Did you watch that? I watched. I didn't watch the whole thing, I watched like major highlights of each of the round. So I I don't remember. I remember it was a five round fight, championship fight, but I remember Johnny Hendrix. I thought Johnny Hendricks went one three of the five rounds. Yeah, and GESP ended up winning that fight. Why? I kind of felt the same thing. That really the same reason that just p won this fight was the same reason that John Jones ones that fight and a lot of judges had that thought in their mind, where Oh, you got to beat the champ and no, you don't have to beat the champ, you just got to win the round and if you win enough rounds you win the fight. Yeah, and and I kind of feel like they just gifted that one to GSP. Yeah, and and just like and, you know, and they rematched and, to GSP's credit, he fucking demolished Johnny Hendrickson this in the rematch, just like John Jones demolished Goosepson in the rematches. Well, man, he totally fucked him up. Did he finish him in the first round or the second round? Oh, I gotta go look that one up. I just felt so right. No, I felt so big nicking around. I think it was the second, but he fucked him up in the first. He barely made it out of the first, I want to say, and in the second he just drugging back into the you know, it's like a fucking saltwater crocodile pulling a gazelle into the waters. You know, it's just like round round three, dude, really all then he was fucking he was just fucking him up. Dude. Yeah, yeah, damn it, drunk damage. Wasn't even a competition. It was round three to two minutes two seconds. Great, yeah, I remember that. Yeah, it's going back to hint tricks versus GSP. After so johnny lost this, this the first one, you know, and then he lost the second one and then that was like the beginning of the end for Johnny Hendricks. Yeah, he's he I don't know. I don't know what happened to him, but he just never fully recovered. You know, you could say, some people could say that it was this fight that, you know, changed his mindset maybe and he just couldn't come back. And then some people say that it was the introduction of Sada to the UFC that turn his career around. But who knows? He was a different fighter after this because because GSP went on, went on Joe Rogan and he kind of refused to fight out call and say that he was he was doping, but he said, you know, you go what he said, he goes. I don't have proof, but you know, he goes. I have no proof, but and he just, you know, kind of implied that, you know, he was juicing, that he was juicing, or that Hendrix was no, Hendrix was using. Oh yeah, I mean a lot of people were saying that. You know, and all you don't have we we don't have proof, but who knows? Yeah, moving off from that, what he what would you throw into the into the list here at number two or just moving on next fight, next fight, what about? Go? Okay, go with that, because I also saw, I took a look at bleacher reports top ten most controversial and made decision under that. That one was on there. You know, Matt Hamill versus, who'd you say? Bisping, Michael Bismill, Hamel and Bisbee. You know, I'll go ahead. And what do you remember about that? You know, bit I want to say bisbeing was coming off of the ultimate, winning the ultimate fighter. or or no, he did it. He lost, right, he lost. Yeah, that's because man Hamil had won that season. Yeah, so this was a rematch. Okay, because this was, was it the final? I don't know if it was a final, but this is, this was like he, Michael Bisbean wanted, wanted to put that that that other fight, like a way. He wanted, like to to address that Shit. You...

...you wanted, like you race that. He goes, no, this is you know. So even when he won that fine, that that second fight, he even he said, he's like yeah, now you know that this I'm for real. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I'm like and I'm like, I mean, I I finished watching the final. was like Nah, man, like Nah, that's not that's not right. I understand. So that one I don't know, because he wasn't the champ, right. Yeah, so I don't understand. How I kind of feel. Ever, I remember that I kind of felt like bis being won fun because at that time the UFC was trying to establish viewership in the UK and what better way to do that than to have someone from the UK be a really good ass fighter, which eventually Bisbee did turn into to create you know, he turned into a Badass motherfucker. Oh Ye, wait, World Chap Dude, he was Ustud but at this time he was just coming up and I felt that he did lose this fight to Matt Hammond. I don't know why they they get they gave him the decision, but he did. You know, and I actually have a super cool Michael Bis being story that I want to share. If you don't read. All right, so, right, heard. I heard this being share this on his podcast. I think the PODCAST is called. Hey, what say you? I don't know. anyways, so, back in the day when Biu being was just coming up, you know, he was fighting, but to supplement his income he was a club Dj, like yeah, like an Electronica fucking Raver DJ, and he would he said that he would dj like he had a set that started like at one o'clock in the morning and then like another one that like three o'clock in the morning and then like another one at so he would be at the club like all fucking night long. Shit. and One night, you know, he had finished the set and someone stole his box of records. Why? So he's like Hey, I got a fucking you know what I mean, fucking MMA fighter loses something. You know, this is fuck some shit up. So he's I went through the club. He's in the parking lot and he's asking people if they seen anything. Finally there's this fucking guy leaning up against car and he's fucking smoking a joint. Danny, he's like and busy being comes up to him and busy beings like a mate, somebody sole my records. Have you seen anything? And the guys like being fucking super cool nonshitant, and he takes a drag of the join and he's like Noah, me, nothing to see here, I ain't seeing shit. And bus beings like the up until this point everyone in the parking lot bus being has been punking them and making them open the truck so that he can see that they don't have his records. So busy being is like, I'm not fucking taking that Shit, you know, I'm not taking his word for that. A open the boot, so I guess that means the trunk. Oh, open up boot, and the guys like, I can't do that. Mate takes it the drag and he's like. BIS being is like no, you're gonna fucking open it or I'm gonna fucking beat the shit out of you, you know, in so many words, and the guys like all right, man, but when I open it, you can't say anything. Base he's like look, man, all I want is my motherfucking records. I don't give a fuck what you have in the fucking trunk. So guys like all right, pop the trunk. There's a fucking dude duck tape in the back of the...

...truck and busy's like those are not my records. All right, could too close. The truck goes back into the club. What's yeah, dude, crazy story, crazy, crazy story round crazy, yeah, right, lady, Bravo. That's right, man. He agrees with you. Yeah, that's a great story. That made me love Michael Bisbee even one damn yeah, gangster. Can you imagine looking his face though? That do opens up the trunk. Damn, I don't know. What would you think if you were trying to if you were back a bish being at that time? But what would you think if you saw that? Those are not my records. All right, you have a good day, sir or he checks out people. He already threw one guy in the trunk. He Ain't gonna have a problem throwing another four in the trunk. I gotta get out out of there and I'll call back up homei no, I don't know. I don't know, I don't know. I gotta know more of this details. I don't know this. You know? Obviously, maybe the judges knew that story and that's why they gave him the fight. Could be. Could be here's the time traveler from the future and they are or knew. fucking asshole. All right, to round out our top five worst decisions of all time, I'm hoping maybe you had this on your list, but I put down Demitrius Johnson versus Ian McCall. You know what I got to say. No, this was not and to be honest, this is not one I remember. I don't know if I was just Pronk when I was watching this and I just blacked it out, but i'Mna let you tell me, tell me what's up. What was all right? So this was, I want to say this was the introduction to the flyweight division in the UFC. So they started up this like form and tournament, and I don't remember who was on the other side, and might have been Joe Benevita's and somebody else of the bracket, but on the other side it was Ian, Ian, uncle creepy McCall versus dmitris Johnson, and a lot of people who were in the know we're really looking forward to this, you know, because honestly I was hoping that these two guys would have been on opposite sides of the bracket and then met in the finals. But it didn't work out that way and Dmitri's Johnson end up getting the decision. But I thought that Ian McCall one, you know, going into the fifth round it was tied two rounds apiece. The fourth round had gone to Ian McCall. He had kind of started to turn it up and dude, nobody, nobody, not even not even fucking Henry so judo put it on Demitrius Johnson, that like Ian McCall, e McCall was fucking up demitrius Johnson in round four and five, and so heading into round five it would I thought it was two to two and and and I thought emacall decisively one round five, taking him down, controlling him, doing damage, advancing positions, you know, making it very, very difficult for Demetrius to stay on the but to stay in a safe position. But the judges didn't see that and they ended up giving it to me, to Demetrius. And what was fucked up was they they read the cards wrong, because originally they gave the decision to Demetrius, but after the fight was over they looked at the cards and it should have been a draw. It was tied. And so, because this one, how long, how long be between when they when they called it, and then they realize, my sake, I think,...

...like the show was already over, like Shit. It was like done, done. So waits so strong up for what happened? What's that? The breast? Fuck that one up? No, no, no, I think they whoever counts, whoever counted, the judges, score cars, counted it wrong. Yeah, and so. So then they gave that the decision to a buffer, and then that's what he read. You know what I mean. And so what should have happened? Because that's what the army imagine, which cold game and the hundred is what is it all up? Bitch, he wasn't even fighting, bitch, she wasn't even here. No, no, so, because, because this was a flyweight tournament, it was already agreed upon before this that if, for whatever reason, the fight was judged as a draw, then they should have gone into an extra overtime round six, and whoever would have won that round would have won the fight, and it probably would have been macall, because he had her. He was already dude Dmitri's did it was out of gas. He ran out of gas or whatever, or even McCall figured him out, but he was fucking them up around for fucking them up around five. Probably would have continued into around six. And and sadly, after this, like this was the end of macall. You know, he never really developed into what a lot of people, including myself, thought he was going to be. I thought he's going to be a dominant force in the UFC for a long time, but after this, you know, he had some injuries and and a lot of he was dealing with a lot of different things. So he never never quite reached his potential. I feel you know right, but he's a great, great fire man. Love watching him fight. So that brings me to a question. I want to get your thoughts on it. So you said that in this case, you, McCall, was was was taking advantage of the last two rounds, work in and just just dominating dmitris Johnson. Right. So, dude, like, do you believe or do you think it would be a good idea that the last two rounds should be worth more than the first two three rounds? No, you know what I'm saying, though. No, I don't think so, because, I mean, look at football, look at baseball, look at basketball. Are Points worth more and the last quarter? No, do don't matter. It's the same. It should be the same throughout all, because the what you're going to end up happiness. People are going to wait till the last round, just like ADCC. You know I mean in ADCC the first five minutes it's submission, only there's no points, and some people they don't even go for submissions because they know that in the next five minutes it's going to be point awarded, and now I can get points for sweets or for passing guard. So right now I'm not even to waste my mouth, your energy and a exactly exactly. I don't like that. I don't think that's good. It should be all the time. If you're going to give points at the end, give him at the beginning. If you're going to give the same amount of points at the beginning, give the same amount of points at the end. Yeah, you know what I think about that. Put my my thought process. For the reason why, you know, I thought maybe that later rounds would be would be scored at a higher point system than the first three rounds is that, you know, like when you're like if you if you make it past the first three rounds, right, like you you've you've kind of weather storm, you you've you've kind of God passes, passes point and then at this point you're kind of really like your challenge right, because if you, for example, if you're fighting somebody who is just like, you know, like just explosive...

...and it just it's just, you know, coming at you whatever and you and you stand your ground, you have a game plan and you're just like trying to like pick your shots. You know, you're trying not to get hurt. You know you this and that. You know you can't you can knock this person out. You're not. You know you don't have that power, but you're able to weather the storm for the first three rounds and then you turn it up fourth and fifth rounds. You know, I'm saying you won two rounds, right, like, let's just pretend that you win two rounds. That's not enough to win you the fight if it goes all the all the way to the distance, right. But for me I'm thinking like, Dude, you look at what you did, right. You took the shots, you fought a fucking great fight and then you put your fetage views. You couldn't get the knockout, obviously, because you maybe you don't have that kind of power, but in all reality, you know, think about you know, think about like, I don't know, locker room fights. Right, let's just say you're getting fucked up in the beginning and then you turn it up and you start wailing the fucking the teacher comes in separates you. Who are your friends going to say that won't really want to fight? Well, you know, no, you know whoever did the most damage. Right, high school fight, and that's how all fights should be. Judge who did the most damage and we're going to decide at the end of the fight who won the fight. So instead of rounds, that would be probably the best thing, just just overall over all. Right, I think so. I think so. Yeah, God, yeah, well, let's put it calling calling uncle Danea man. call him up right now, call out, call a fool up, tell him he's got to listen to this podcast. What's it called? A game? Frank Jujit. That Ols Coast to coast. Yeah, you do. You know that me and Eddie met Dana White like right ahead ahead of like UFC fifty one? Maybe? was that when he was trying to sign you? Now? That was another time, okay, but at this time what had happened was me and Eddie and some other people went to Vegas, but me and Adie wanted to get there in time so that we can go to the wayins on Friday. But we got there lay and me and anywhere like let we were just like do we me and any were pissed because we didn't make it on time and by a time we got to the MGM. Everybody was gone. Dude, like, as a matter of fact, we like we had just missed it, like everybody was walking out and as we were walking to where they had the Wagins, then Henderson was walking out and he had came with. We with. We forgot who. We don't. I don't remember who, but at that time Dan Henderson was still fighting in pride. And so we missed it and I was just like, AH, man, we missed it, you know, but you know what, let's just go see what was down and let's just go see what they're doing. And so, dude, we walked all the way into the arena and they were putting the cage up, like the cage was already up and they were just like putting lights up and shit. But Dude, we walked in, and I'm not going to say we walked in acting like we were like we belonged, but we acted like we knew what we were doing and we walked all the way to the cage and walked onto the outside of the cage. Dude, is that? Is that when you took that picture of any morning on the cage? Oh, yes, yes, that's the famous pick. Do you want to tell the audience what that famous pick is all about. Maybe we could say that for another one. I'll tease that. I'll leave that for another later feature episode. We which is a great to be great, a great story, but we did take pics on the not inside the cage, but on the outside of the cage, and then we walked around the cage and as we were walking out, dude, we fucking ran into Diana White. What do you say, dude?...

He started talking to us. Yeah, it was fucking crazy. Dude's it was amazing, you know, but he's he's such a cool motherfucker. Man, Dude. At this time pride was still going on and he's like Hey, what's what's going on, dude? Hey, you know what I'm and he do. He started telling us what he was working on. He's like hey, dude. He's like I'm trying to get Vanderley over here, and I'm like if you could, dude. We were like Jizzy in our pants. We're like, if you could do dude. What we should have done was we should have been like, Dana, give us a job. Yeah, we were still in college, Dude, you know what I mean? Like, who knows? But super cool for all of us frank, super cool experience. I know do we could all have been working. I'm sorry, I could have been wearing those ladder suits inside the fucking ring. What are you talking about? You can rusher, dude, Hollofoil, Chinese sharkskin suits? Hell No, dude, I'd be wearing Chalino Shit allegator oh ostrich skin boots in the dude, I'll be are those fucking boots that are Hella pointing all the way up to my knee? Dude, I like you. I like you, I like your style, I like yeah, all right, I think that's a good point to end on. Well, that's Today's show. Thank you all for listening. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast and follow us on Ig at, jiujitos. See to see. That's jiujitos. See to see. Jiu J I t ri Os. See to see. We will be launching going live soon, so hanging there. In the meantime, go ahead and follow us again, like I said, on Ig and say hello or asks a question or let us know what you want to hear, what you might want to hear on future episodes. All Right, I want to thank I'll Fondo for joining me on today's episode. Anything you want to add, dude? Just thanks for having me Frank. Everybody out there stay awesome. See you next time, sure, for sure. Thank you guys for listening. Take Care, be safe, keep rolling and training if you can out there, and we hope to hear from you soon. Pos.

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